The Gaming Den

Yep, you make money being a silver spoon. You have no real skills aside from who you know and how long your parents paid for your schooling. A trained monkey probably couldn't do your job, but it's close. Overvalued like management and marketing, not actually increasing the bottom line of the company you consult for.

I'm sorry, tzor, you opened a can of worms with just how coddled your are in this world.

-Crissa

If there ever was a set of universal Rules For Internet Safety, #1 would be Never give detailed information about yourself to strangers.

Granted, I live at home too, being yet another college student with scarce career prospects and half of a degree. I work part time mostly, and full time when class isn't in session.
Or rather, I'd work full time if those kinds of companies HIRE people like me.

A common question in interviews:
"We're seeing a lot of time between school semesters where you don't have a job, and it's not looking too good as far as a history of steady employment. Could you explain what you do during that time?"
"Yes, I look for work when not in school. Part-time is the only kind I can get, aside from the occasional friend, relative, or temp hire."
"Why do you think employers won't hire you for full time positions? Do you not even try for them?"
"Oh, I apply. They mostly give me the same runaround you're doing right now. Same questions every time."
"... We're done here."

As a fluke I suppose a construction company hired me this summer. I actually thought it would be a long-term position, given the days of training I spent in Virginia to get it.
Got a warning a month into the job from a high-up; come to work earlier or you get a warning. Nothing stern, but still a bit disconcerting.
You see, it took about 2 hours to drive south and another 2 hours to drive north every week day. I would get up around 4:30 or 5 AM, drive, work, drive, then be home just before the sun sets... in early summer.
Evenings left enough time to eat, get maybe 7-8 hours of sleep in, and wake up before next sunrise for work.

After the stomach ulcer I decided it wasn't possible.

After quitting, all temp prospects (which I had diligently eaten up for a year before taking the construction job) dried up. The placement company claims there simply are no new offers lately, probably due to nationwide employment cutbacks.
No local company will hire me. Not even as a dishwasher; that's for Latinos only these days, apparently. There's still the school I go to, there's a chance they have something, even if it's just as a clerk or assistant in anything....


There is a term in Europe for this phenomenon of relatively young (or not so young) vagrant workers, struggling for success, moving from job to job as prospects slim.

Freeters.

I envy you older well-employed independent geeks. I truly do.
I don't know if Tzor fits this description (I bet not) but as direct advice to you, T, keeping GOP in office prolongs and even worsens this (our) growing portion of the underskilled, young, indebted, and disillusioned.
Tzor, you ARE helping them do it.
So are people like my grandfather and my girlfriend's parents.
It's sickening to think people would put the health and success of a fucking NATION over petty issues such as "keep special interest taxes low" or "push the pro-life movement forward".

Frank's tone is jokingly half-serious, but Crissa pulled a nasty accusation; I hope she's only pissed at the dichotomy you have going here that "everything's fine" and yet, apparently, it isn't for you. If I were you I wouldn't support the very same office that keeps me in this income class, really.

We need to develop a better national economy, work on paying international debt, and pull this turd casserole of a system up by its bootstraps, and we need to do it NOW.

Why do so many of our national economic problems trace back to bank corruption and bad management of debt?
Wouldn't our ancestors' craptastic bout with banks after WW1 be evidence enough that the system doesn't work like that?
Fuck. I'm going back to video games and biology college homework.
Maybe when I wake up tomorrow the world will be a better- oh wait, no, it's not.

I think it's hilarious to see Crissa complaining that someone else is wealthy and disconnected from reality, Ms. "I think anyone who doesn't buy ten dollar eggs is stupid and beneath my notice".

We have two people that have no idea of how most of the country lives. One is the kindly sort who manages to be civil and even crack a witty comment from time to time, the other is a screaming banshee that makes it obvious that she thinks everyone who's not her is the scum of the earth, and who in my opinion isn't a real lefty anyway.

(Crissa, you might bitch a good fight, but when it comes down to it, you violently oppose anything that takes you out from your perch. You're the typical millionaire that acts liberal to appease her conscious but doesn't actually care. You're not one paycheck away from being homeless like 80% of America is, you don't fucking know what it's like.)

Uh... Count? Crissa actually is one paycheck away from homelessness a lot of the time.

-Username17

As we seem to be about to degenerate into a game of I'm poorer-than-you here, lemme just re-iterate a general standing offer: if any den/nifty regulars are truly destitute, email me - if you're willing to come PGH - I can probably find you a couch-surfing-to-roomate-living situation and nearly instant employment flipping Rothelisbergers.

Around here, we've already had decades of practice living in a recession under corrupt political regimes.

FrankTrollman wrote:Uh... Count? Crissa actually is one paycheck away from homelessness a lot of the time.

We could make a club for it.

Josh: And where exactly is "PGH"?

sigma999 wrote:

FrankTrollman wrote:Uh... Count? Crissa actually is one paycheck away from homelessness a lot of the time.

We could make a club for it.

Josh: And where exactly is "PGH"?

Pittsburgh.

Neeeek wrote: Pittsburgh.

Thanks. If all other options collapse I'll keep that in consideration, I am a dedicated worker even though social problems within corporate America and conflicts with eye-talkers in general tend to plague me like some kind of curse.
At least in my favor for skills training there is the state-provided disability support paying for my latest college classes in medical lab training. Learning problems, and all that.

The college still won't dish out $200 for a bio textbook though.
"Our records here say you had a book voucher," which I didn't. Only had $130 USD that overflowed from the grant towards credit fees to buy 1 book.
2 weeks in to the semester, I'm still struggling with the myriad offices over this. Might be time to take it to the director.

Either way, medical training here I come.

I feel kind of weird.

I mean, I'm a geology major. Paleontology, especially with small oceanic fossils, is looking quite good to me right now, because those're what's used to locate oceanic oil, such as might be found in the Gulf of Mexico.

I mean, on one hand, with some study and everything, I can become competent enough to make 70,000 dollars in my first year working for an oil company (the Geology department posts these very informative salary comparisons in the hallways. That's really the average low-end salary for a freshly-minted oil geologist).

On the other hand, I'll be one of the people who mine out the Gulf of Mexico. Although there is so hypothesizing that Florida could be a new area to explore (because Florida makes so fucking much from tourism, they don't want to do anything that might drive people off, like have a faint dot on the horizon that, upon inquiry, is an oil rig. I suppose that's their right, but if everyone wasn't so focused on Alaska, Florida would on the list of other places to hit up).

Josh_Kablack wrote:Around here, we've already had decades of practice living in a recession under corrupt political regimes.

My spouse spent a truncated summer there once, pulling unpaid overtime at Wendy's before being run over by a drunk driver. Her driver's insurance was charged for the incident (because of local laws) even though she was on a bicycle and Wendy's charged her replacement cost for the bloody uniform destroyed by the paramedics.

I know it's been a bad few decades, but I don't think I want to go there.

-Crissa

Josh_Kablack wrote:As we seem to be about to degenerate into a game of I'm poorer-than-you here, lemme just re-iterate a general standing offer: if any den/nifty regulars are truly destitute, email me - if you're willing to come PGH - I can probably find you a couch-surfing-to-roomate-living situation and nearly instant employment flipping Rothelisbergers.

Around here, we've already had decades of practice living in a recession under corrupt political regimes.

Or if you can scrounge up money for a plane ticket, I can line you up with teaching work in Vietnam. You can earn 1500+ a month without too much work. (Pay generally goes from 14-20 US an hour) And an ok apartment can be found for 2-500 dollars a month.

Crissa wrote: My spouse spent a truncated summer there once, pulling unpaid overtime at Wendy's before being run over by a drunk driver. Her driver's insurance was charged for the incident (because of local laws) even though she was on a bicycle and Wendy's charged her replacement cost for the bloody uniform destroyed by the paramedics.

... holy shit.


Maxus: I guess it comes down to a choice of you vs. the environment, then?
Well, gee, in the game of self-preservation in hard times, I think the living human comes first. Always.
Do the oil.

Maxus, an oil rig is both ugly, and damaging to the environment it is in.

It constantly spills oil and toxic debris into the water in which is stands, mixing what nature sealed away from itself into the world which is not prepared for it.

Perhaps it won't matter eventually, as one of the largest dead zones in the seas is in the middle of the Gulf. Filled with carbon dioxide, isolated from silts from the continent, and suffocated by algal and invasive jellyfish blooms, the fisheries there are dead.

Private industry means never having to have the priority of 'clean and safe' before 'more profitable every year'.

-Crissa

Crissa wrote: My spouse spent a truncated summer there once, pulling unpaid overtime at Wendy's before being run over by a drunk driver. Her driver's insurance was charged for the incident (because of local laws) even though she was on a bicycle and Wendy's charged her replacement cost for the bloody uniform destroyed by the paramedics.

-Crissa

Wow, yes, Holy Shit.

Kinda reminds me of the time I got in a car accident when driving to work the week before my company insurance kicked in. Her's is significantly more fucked up though.

Now, I hate to be that guy, but my employment fortune has finally been reversed; I just got a full-time position as a Medical Biller, with Orthopedic Associates no less. I'll be leaving the pack of hell beasts that my immediate family has become and sleeping on my best friend's floor for the next month or two while I procure the necessary finances to acquire an apartment the bare necessities of modern living.

FrankTrollman wrote:Uh... Count? Crissa actually is one paycheck away from homelessness a lot of the time.

Might be, but he's not making the evidence up; he first said that when she said "organic" food wasn't expensive, which seemed insane to both me (in Brazil) and the Count (presumably in the U.S.A.) - so it probably is insane, and led the Count to think Crissa doesn't even go buy her own food.

Asshole out.

Organic food isn't expensive. An organic banana costs less than 5¢ a pound more on the wholesale market. They don't grow bananas in California.

If organically grown food is expensive where you live, then it's because of a series of factors: People are willing to pay the price. Shops are unwilling to find a good deal. It's not grown locally. Etc.

Most Americans - and people in the top consumer nations - don't eat local foods. America uses this as a weapon. It is why people in Venezuela are starving. It's why farmers in Mexico can't make ends meet. It's because the price of food is artificially driven by a shadow puppet organization of conglomerates.

People like tzor probably don't realize how much was given to them. Their savings are protected by the Fed. They were given an education at government expense. They've had free roads, police, fire, and access to vaccines and stable food prices. They have safe foods, medicines and jobs due to government intervention. They have a house bought more cheaply because of the government backed loans. Their parents had a relationship recognized and encouraged by the government. Their creed was supported and encouraged by the government.

The more wealth they've had, the more they have the government to thank for it. Military protection doesn't help the poor. Police protection doesn't always help the poor. And certainly buyouts and protections for the biggest banks and investors really doesn't impact the poor. Wealthy people have their government to thank for it.

Poor people have their government to thank as well, but who thanks their government for being poor?

-Crissa

First of all, let’s not compare apples and oranges; if I recall correctly, Crissia is in California which has a greater number of organic farmers than other locations. Prices are for the most part determined by supply, demand and economies of scale. For the most part, including where I live, “organic” foods are supplied by local farmers which are generally smaller than the larger international food suppliers that can get food from all over the world where it is always “in season” somewhere. Where I am organic food, as is local food is slightly more expensive. But it is far better in every way you can think of.

My savings is protected by the Fed. (It will probably take me a very long time to get to the maximum savings provided by the FDIC.) My college loans (from the early 80’s) were something I still wonder about even to this day.

But it still doesn’t allow one to use bad science as an excuse. Dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are not due to oil wells; they are due to the use of nitrogen based fertilizers which causes nutrients to flow into the waters which causes aerobic creatures to grow and consume all the free oxygen in the water which in turn causes oxygen dead zones where food and oxygen is rare. There are complex reasons why organic is better than nitrogen based fertilizers but it may have to do with the process in which the organic fertilizer is distributed to plants (as it is processed through various other agents) and not all at once as is the case with general nitrogen based fertilization chemicals.

Therefore if one has to blame anyone for the dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico, looking at the beef industry of Florida is probably the best suspect to investigate. You can follow that up with the beef industry of Texas.

Crissia wrote “Yep, you make money being a silver spoon. You have no real skills aside from who you know and how long your parents paid for your schooling. A trained monkey probably couldn't do your job, but it's close. Overvalued like management and marketing, not actually increasing the bottom line of the company you consult for.”

That’s wonderful clap trap but since you don’t really know me I can easily forgive some over generalizations on your part. I’m more than willing to admit that a lot of what I am is literally from the “grace of God.” I don’t know about the “trained monkeys” but I’ve outlived the consultant company in India that was supposed to make me “redundant.” Am I overvalued? I might say all consultants are overvalued. Do I actually increase the bottom line of the company I consult for? Considering that the product I work for actually makes money for the company I would say that I am, if not increasing the bottom line, I am keeping it from dropping. If I keep one million dollar contract from leaving the company because of the work I do, I think I’m more than justified as an expense. (Especially since I’m on the side of the head count the bean counters aren’t insanely paranoid over.)

It's not the grace of god.

It's your society, your government. People who believed in a better future where they could say what they wanted, marry who they wanted, and not have people starving in anyone's from lawn. You could show a little compassion for people.

Your company wouldn't lose a single dollar if you left, that's just how it is. Marketing, consultants, and managers make you think they're valuable - and a few are - but half of their job is convincing someone they have value. Not in and of having value itself.

-Crissa

PS, those fertilizers? Made from those oils. The dead zones were only an example of big things we're ignoring because it's not visible over the horizon.

Crissa wrote:Organic food isn't expensive. An organic banana costs less than 5¢ a pound more on the wholesale market. They don't grow bananas in California.

Right, but Count's complaint is that instead of posting something to back up your claim you just shouted at him. Considering that he probably isn't lying about the cost of organic food where he is you came off as a jerk.

Tzor, Crissa never said dead zones are caused by oil wells. She said that the wells mightn't matter since the area is already fucked. Try reading a post before you write a paragraph in response.

Organic food IS expensive. Almost no one I know can afford to buy it even on an occasional basis because they wouldn't have GAS MONEY for the week.

Come to the east coast U.S.
Try to buy wheat free bread or a packaged meal without preservatives.
Good luck paying anywhere near less than 250% of the normal price for, say, a 'normal' loaf of whole wheat or some imported fruit.

It might be a local phenomenon for California since the area is practically inundated with ex-hippies and yet-still-hippies; more demand for 'organic', more supply.
Food on this side of the nation is more of a division between tax brackets than an essential life-giving resource; the rich eat great, the middle class eat OK, and the poor eat crap like KFC and cheap soda (it's cheaper than water, by far).

Well, it's completely a farce. Artificial inflation.

...And it's why out here in the west we resist your east-coast corporations taking over our markets. They've destroyed several western chains already with their imported food.

PS, what's the price of, say, fresh tomatoes today in your market? Bananas? Find out, we'll compare.

-Crissa

The problem with local is that unlike California most of the Untied States doesn't have a 365 day growing season. Hey we are the ones who have to live with that. Can't get fresh local tomatoes in December? (Unless you pay for the small amounts of green house grown ones?) We used to live with that all the time but now we are spoiled by the stuff they ship from South America over the winter months.

Long Island isn't a good example, what hasn't turned urban has turned to vineyards, but up north in Connecticut, farmers are making headway selling "shares" of their produce directly to their customers; they get stuff when it becomes available. That's really how we should be eating anyway!

Tomatoes: varies greatly depending on the economic class of the neighborhood near a store but I've seen an average come out to around $1.50 apiece.
Since the disease scare this year it has gone up but I don't know the increase.

Bananas: dunno about this much, since eating them makes my mouth and throat itch, but they usually come bruised and sorta wilted lately. I suspect slightly cheaper than tomatoes or apples (which are more efficiently priced in bulk, grown fairly locally) but the quality is so bad they simply aren't bought often.

Cheapest produce we have is corn because it's grown locally but it is seasonal. Fresh, unmodified corn from local farms (we're surrounded by them) is the best in summer.

Interesting idea for comparison, though. I'll stop by some local grocery stores when I have time this week and price check.

Crissa wrote:Well, it's completely a farce. Artificial inflation.

I agree. Its just that organic food is expensive to buy but cheap to produce is completely possible. Someone is getting a tidy profit somewhere along the line. I'll take a wild stab and guess its not the farmers.